Interview No. 189

Interview By: @The-Great-One

Patreon Post Date: January 17, 2024

Today's guest has been a household name on Newgrounds for over two decades now. In the past we talked about his works on Popstar, Roller Coaster Junkie, and the upcoming movie that would take Newgrounds by storm and is still in the Top 50 of the Portal which would become Tarboy. He would later on bring us a character that is a Newgrounds symbol and that is NOX. I am most pleased to welcome, @JamesLee.

Q: At what age did you become interested in animation?

A: I was 14 when my dad’s friend burnt me a CD with a whole bunch of pirated Adobe and Macromedia stuff. It blew my mind having access to all that, it was heaps of fun learning how to do all the simple stuff, like tweening a shape.

Q: What brought you to Griffith University?

A: It looked like the best animation program near me I could find at the time. I didn’t know there was anywhere to study animation in Brisbane, and Griffith had the only course that was focused entirely on animation.

Q: You have a Bachelors in Animation with Honors from Griffith University. A lot of creators tend to learn both from schooling and Newgrounds. What can you tell us the differences between learning from both?

A: Film school taught me a lot about movement, and classical fundamentals, whereas Newgrounds gave me a lot of insight into the making something for the internet. The feedback you receive on Newgrounds is honest and especially starting out, you come up against the harsh realities of making something for the public. And so I got a lot of practice in honing my work for an audience.

Q: We have a lot of animation jams that are happening on Newgrounds. Back in 2010 you would make 24 shorts in 24 hours, titled 24 in 24. This is an ambitious project which you have stated was physically exhausted. How much planning went into the shorts before the animation process?

A: 24in24 was inspired by Scott McCloud who would do a 24 page comic in 24 hours. I went into it with a few ideas in my back pocket in case I was too tired and hitting a wall. But I had a rule that all of the visuals, except the transitions would need to be completed in the 24 hour window.

Q: You would do this again in 24in24 Twenty Eleven. After the exhaustion from the first one, what made you want to make a second one and why?

A: I wanted to try it again because to see if I could improve upon the quality of ideas. I produced a lot of filler/sucky shorts in the first one, so it was a fun way to test myself under pressure.

Q: During the My Little Pony craze that was going on during 2011 and 2012 you would bring us Batman Hates Bronies. These are two of my favorite things that you would bring together in this parody. Why have Batman attacking bronies? What was the experience in working with Jazza and TomaMoto?

A: I guess I just wanted to make a video about bronies, since they were so visible at the time. And it just made sense to me that batman would have this huge aversion to them. It’s so weird looking back and thinking that this was what the internet was back then.Jazza and Tomar just nailed it. It’s such a huge relief when the first take comes back perfect, with no needed changes or finagling. They’re both total pros at what they do.

Q: Pregnetheus would not only be a parody of Prometheus, it would also be the first movie made on your new computer. I love the idea of using a claw machine. How did you come up with that?

A: haha, I cant remember exactly but i think it was just a spur of the moment thing

Q: One of your best movies in my opinion is your animated documentary entitled Nolwandle's Story. How did you come in contact with Amnesty International. What was your experience like working on a documentary?

A: They reached out to me and commissioned the short . It was tricky coming up with a style that was achievable given the budget, that also does justice to the heavy themes that were discussed. I’m proud to have worked on a project with such a personal story like that.

Q: Before we continue onward, I think we should address something important. With the Internet becoming more dominant and creators expanding their creations further and further, it is important to keep your wits about you. Tarboy 2 was at some point 50% complete. There were a lot of issues coming up due to a Tarboy game and legal problems. You were also hit with burnout during this time. What is the complete story behind the development hell Tarboy 2? What advice can you give to creators on Newgrounds so they won't fall into any similar pitfalls?

A: I started Tarboy 2 after the game project and subsequent fallout had concluded. I ended Tarboy 2 because I wasn’t happy with how it was turning out. And there was too much baggage as well, so I pulled the plug.

As for how the game project went, I’ll say, be extremely careful on who you sign a deal with. Especially if it comes to rights over your IP, or requires heavy commitment from you. Have a lawyer check over the contract, and even then you have to really trust the person. If you make anything that people like, hucksters are naturally going to climb out of the woodwork and try to sway you. Find experienced people that you can trust and get their insight. Be mindful of your own inexperience and wishful thinking, and how that can make you a target for people who will promise anything.

Q: When the Fine Bros. were attempting to copyright React videos you would bring us an idea you couldn't resist with Welcome to React World™. Why couldn't you resist this idea? Would this be the precursor to NOX?

A: Yeah I’d say so, it was the most satirical work I’d done at that point and solidified the dystopian look. I hadn’t done much only in a few years at that point. It was one of those ideas I just got obsessed with, and had to make it.

Q: We have now come to NOX. Where his debut would be on YouTube entitled Sick of Silly Logan Paul. How did you come up with the character of NOX? Why was his debut not on Newgrounds? Why start with Logan Paul?

A: It just seemed funny to me that he would of born out of some pointless run of the mill internet shit. Like some demon that crawled out of a sewer just to talk about Logan Paul. At the time I didn’t feel like it was a good fit for Newgrounds, with it having that drama/commentary channel bent to it. And I felt like Newgrounds was a cool place without all that youtubey shit. As my work integrated more animation and started commenting on broader topics, I felt like it was a better fit with the Newgrounds ethos.

Q: A Life Without Facebook would be NOX's debut on Newgrounds and his official debut. You stated that if the feedback were great, you had a lot of these planned out. Your work on Nolwandle's Story, your parody writing, and your combination of animation and live action have culminated into a new series that has taken Newgrounds by storm. Why was Facebook the start for this series?

A: I was thinking a lot about the fact that I’d spent my life trying to make engaging content, and how engaging content was feeding into people’s worst habits. That I’d have to be on these shitty platforms to progress my indie career, incentivised to clickbait and play the shitty game of getting eyeballs. So Nox was a way to reconcile this conflict, and I felt the topic Facebook privacy would be a good place to start, considering it was recently in the news with the Cambridge Analytica stuff that was going on.

Q: Out of all the NOX movies, my favorite side series involving him is absolutely the Court of Public Opinion. My favorite being Ellen & the Court of Public Opinion. The court of public opinion has always been a thing for centuries, you're the first I've seen bring it into a physical form. Where did the idea come from? What has made you continue it onward?

A: I’m not too sure where the idea came about. I was just interested in the cancelations that were going on, and the discussions surrounding cancel culture in general. My views on the topic have changed over time, or maybe gotten a little more complicated, as the weaponry of cancelations, accusations of cancelation, the language surrounding it all gets refined in the propaganda machine. It’s confusing and multi-angled, and I think people have been trying to figure out the blurry lines amongst all the shit slinging. So I wanted to represent some of that chaos and spectacle surrounding it all.

Q: I'm jumping a little out of order. With Donald Trump being referenced in the Ellen & the Court of Public Opinion, the movie before that one would be "winner". I love the line in the Ellen movie about losing subs again. Well, we can now lose subs together, because I thought "winner" was absolutely hilarious and provocative without coming off as pretentious. That's some impressive comedic humor in this time when anybody against Trump is going on about jokes that a 2nd grader could come up with. What made you want to make this movie to discuss Donald Trump during this time? Will we see a follow up?

A: Previous to that video I was looking for ways to critique people of any political stripe, but increasingly I was feeling there was this pressure that you don’t criticize Trump on youtube. And some people are gonna balk at me even saying that. And that speaks to what I was feeling at the time. That there was something uncool, un-nuanced, ‘Orange-Man Bad-Esque’ about calling him out. That you need to have this veneer of pontification, unbiased, critiquing everyone in equal measure. Or else you’re some phony hack who watches CNN. And so with all that I thought it’d be kinda funny just to make a video that plainly says I think Trump’s a fuckhead.

****It feels dirty pandering to an audience. Infantilizing. I’d prefer my audience knows I’ll do my best to speak my mind honestly, not just repeat their own thoughts back to them with pretty production gloss. It’s more respectful that way I think, even if I’m critiquing a guy you like. That’s the ideal at least.

Q: Your funniest movie and what I believe to be your absolute best is Breaking up with Adobe. With the death of Flash, you would bring us a movie that was not only a tribute to flash, but satire as well. The writing and animation is incredible. I love how you blend live action and animation together in the NOX series, and I feel this is the best one. You have a lot of history with Adobe products. Looking back on them and where we are today, how did you compile all the pros and cons into this movie? Why the analogy of a couple breaking up for it?

A: I just feel like we’re all in bed with Adobe, and we can’t get out. It lured us all in with nice features, and now we’re kinda trapped. Like a bunch of chumps. There was one day my software crashed, and I just said ‘FFFUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUU’. As though years of using this shitty software had been reduced me to a husk of angry man swearing at my computer. And then like everyone, I just loaded it back up again. Like I was crawling back.

Q: Rise of NOX would be your shot at YouTube and the setup for your Patreon. You would address this topic in Web Animation & Monetization. You still submit to YouTube and Newgrounds at the same time though. As a creator is YouTube important to help grow an audience?

A: Man that’s a tricky one. I’ve been very fortunate with how my youtube has panned out this last year. At the same time though, it was such a fucking grind. The platform is full of quality content that doesn’t get seen, let alone gaining enough audience to make it financially sustainable.I do think Newgrounds is very important though. Coz early on, you’re naked on a deserted island, rubbing two sticks together, hoping to get a spark going. Newgrounds can be that spark to get those first hundred or thousand followers. Your hit rate here is going to be far better than throwing your video into the white noise on YouTube.

I know someone on here who landed a show deal after their video got some traction on here. And there’s other people who were able to translate even moderate success on Newgrounds into some very big things. So don’t think that the subscriber number on YT or Tiktok, or twitter, is the be and end all.

And if you do make it, I think it’s important to remember Newgrounds, and keep supporting the site. Help keep the site healthy so that others starting out still have that pathway.

Q: What can you tell us about your work on Shaq Fu: A Legend Reborn?

A: That was my first time working on a production of that size. It was stressful. I’m not sure they knew how much I was just winging it, heh. It was awesome though, we had a lot of creative freedom, and an excellent team. I learnt a lot about production management, and gained an appreciation for logistics and producer roles.

Q: You have worked with 2D animation, 3D animation, live action, and have combined all of them together. Looking at your works from Funky Bunny Breakdance to Miyazaki is my Dad!. How do you feel about your growth over the years? What advice can you give to animators on Newgrounds?

A: It’s crazy looking back. I miss the feeling of starting out, when making some goofy little animation was this great achievement. And then staying up all night with buddies, trying to get our submission to make it through the portal. It felt like it was going to take forever, to be good enough to make something that wouldn’t get blamed. I remember seeing this janky animation of a baby crawling in the Flash 4 tutorial help, and being blown away that they could animate a character with different body parts like that. I feel nostalgic for that time, when so much was undiscovered.

I think my advice is, you don’t have to feel shitty about your animation skills, or how you measure up to other people. Any skill you want in animation, is something you can learn. That’s all it is, just something you haven’t learnt yet. And learning it is pretty fun.

Q: What is in your opinion, the definition of animation?

A: hm shit I’ll have a crack at this one:

The art of edited, stylised movement applied to screen

How’s that?

Q: What can we expect from JamesLee in the future?

A: More Nox. More Nox stories and lore.

We now come to the questionnaire invented by French talk show host Bernard Pivot, and adapted by my idol James Lipton.

Q: What's your favorite word?

A: fffffffUUUUUCK

Q: What is your least favorite word?

A: I dunno diplodocus sounds pretty shit and an even shitter name for a dinosaur

Q: What turns you on?

A: subs

Q: What turns you off?

A: marvel movies

Q: What sound or noise do you love?

A: citypop

Q: What sound or noise do you hate?

A: People who sneeze so loud, it’s like they’re being hit by a car

Q: What's your favorite curse word?

A: doodle

Q: What job or profession would you most like to take rather than your own?

A: A musician

Q: What job or profession would you least like to take?

A: adobe beta tester

Q: If Heaven exists, what would you like God to say to you when you arrive at the pearly gates?

A: sup slut

James has always been a favorite animator of mine here on Newgrounds. His art and animation alone speak for themselves. His writing and comedic timing is absolutely hilarious and dramatic. From bigwig robots getting a beat down by a boy of tar, Batman beating up bronies, to a subscribe button being chased down for a click. Whenever you watch something by JamesLee, you know you're in for a good time, or at least a strange time. He is one of the masters of animation here on Newgrounds.

The Interviewer is a part of Dohn's Desk Productions

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