Interview No. 178

Interview By: @The-Great-One

Patreon Post Date: Feb 22, 2022

Today's guest is one of Newgrounds most amazing stories. Starting as a small game developer and musician here on the site, being a host of The Newgrounds Podcast, and a Supporter of Newgrounds in more ways than just a badge on his profile. I am most pleased to welcome @ninjamuffin99.

Q: Normally I start these interviews off with How did you find Newgrounds and why did you join? However, we know that you came here to share an animated loop which you posted to your Dumping Grounds. You forgot about the site for a while and came back to find music for a game you were working on. What game was it? What made you want to stick around?

A: The game I was working on at first was called “Terrible Game With Terrible Writing”. It was a Ren’py visual novel about my high school teacher in a high school of dipshit memes at the time. Very much inspired by “John Cena’s Sexy High School Adventure!”. Wanted background music and whatnot, somehow I found my way back to Newgrounds. I feel like I was adjacent to Newgrounds for a while. It wasn’t until I started both MAKING music in dinky FL Studio demo, and asking musicians for music for ANOTHER game I was working on “Bad Kitties: Psycho Kitties gonna be psycho”. One day I will make a follow up to this and post it to NG since I got the new version of RPG Maker with HTML5 export heheh.

I think as I was looking around for music, I initially logged back in so that I could save the music to my favs so I could come back to em later. If you look at most of my early people I followed, it’s a lot of musicians. I think as time goes on I naturally got more and more into the habit of using NG, until we got to the point where we’re at today!

Q: When and how did you become interested in music?

A: Relatively “recently”. Growing up I never really gave a shit about music. There was some stuff I’d like to listen to, but it wasn’t until 2015 or so, when I was 16 years old, when I really started feeling everything out. Listening to stuff on spotify, discovering musicians. Diggin thru the crates of Newgrounds musicians. I’m really open to listening to whatever type of music at all. Mostly I love hip-hop and rap, but just as much I love crazy ass hyperpop and general pop music. I really do lov music, and I feel bad that I don’t dig into it as much as I’d personally like to. I also feel bad that I don’t listen to as much NG music as I used to back when I was teen. All it takes though is a few REALLY good NG musicians that I’m addicted to.

Before FNF, kawaisprite was the musician i was addicted to and listened to every upload. I’ll use dis spot to shoutout NG music people I love right now. Shoutouts @tsuyunoshi lov their crazy ass music especially their collab wit kawaisprite, I love any rap that @maxxjamez is a part of, HOLY SHIT SHOUTOUT @THICCBURGER one of the most under rated musicians on NG. and love to @siximpala lov u katt and crew <3

Q: You started making music through Fruity Loops in 2016. What made you want to pursue music?

A: This one is a funny lil silly one. In late 2015 (when I started gettin into music stuff), Undertale had just come out. I didn’t even play the game, but I liked some of the music. In high school, I’d neglect my work and I’d boot up some web browser piano bullshit you could play with the keyboard, and I would play and practice MEGALOVANIA by looking at those Youtube Synthesia piano vids or whatever. I still know that first little section by heart. Then eventually my foster mom nabbed a piano, and I liked dabbling around on that, slowly teaching myself how music works. Eventually found my way to FL Stu, and dabbled around with that a lot.

Another piece of the puzzle is Stardew Valley. Even back then I wanted to be a indie game dev, and Stardew Valley was made by just one dude, ConcernedApe (Eric Barone). He did all the art, music, code, etc. That still is VERY inspirational to me. Thought piece by piece, over the years I could slowly become this jack of all trades like he is, and I still hope that to be possible. Missing piece right now is I need to get good at art!

Q: When did you become a part of A Couple of Crickets and later on The Newgrounds Podcast? What can you tell us about your experiences with both?

A: ACoCK I pulled up for the first live Discord podcast they did. Imma take credit, cuz NGP STILL does that format to this day. We was the pioneers. I found ACoCK cuz at the time I was listening to a LOT of podcasts, and I saw it on the frontpage or Tom mention it or something. It was relatively early on in it’s life. I listened to a bunch and I really was hooked. GoodL and littlbox were the tastemakers. Kawaisprite is incredibly talented, but I would have never found out about him as early as I did without ACoCK. I think it was GoodL that found him. So many Newgrounds goodies like that. PapaLegba was early on and i love all his stuff, they frequently shouted him out. He is VERY popular online nowadays, but it doesn’t feel too long ago when MeatCanyon was just a humble Newgrounds fella that they’d shoutout. Before he even had 1K on the site! ACoCK really was somethin powerful. Littlbox and GoodL also were very good pals, so I stuck around and helped out wit stuff. I made Discord bot to play Newgrounds music directly through discord for them!

NGP sorta came out of WillKMR wanting to do lil somethin different with GroundsPatrol, as well as ACoCK easing out as they reached their final episode, episode 50. For NGP I was there early on editin episodes and whatnot and hosting, and having various inputs. Over time (especially as I got busy with FNF) I slipped away and things changed and whatnot. But still lov and appreciate NGP it is interesting to see all the changes and different things it’s done. Maybe I just haven’t listened to it in a while though, I feel like there’s an aspect of both ACoCK and Grounds Patrol that NGP misses though. Maybe it’s just the nostalgia in me talking tho heheh. I still got respect

Q: You have also touched on animation, one thing to look at are the 12 Principles of Animation by Alan Becker. When and how did you come across the 12 Principles? When did you become interested in animation?

A: When I was 15, I started dabbling around in SOURCE FILMMAKER, and making dipshit little animations. Over that summer, I didn’t have access to a computer good enough to run the software, but I did have youtube, so I sorta “studied” and went through those videos by Alan Becker lolol. Those concepts to this day still has helped me out a lot in both animation stuff, and working with animators, etc. Then I went into this class in high school where it taught you how to use different software. I went with the one that taught me adobe flash, for no particular reason really. Then I was able to use the concepts in that flash course and I felt super cool heheh. Really though it was just making ball bounce, but with SQUASH AND STRETCH, and EASING and shit lol.

Q: How and when did you become interested in programming?

A: I really wanted to make video games, and I found out that to make video games, you sorta need someone to program! My mindset has always been that it’s good to learn as much as you can about the process, so that if/when you work with other people, it goes a LOT more smoothly, and the process and output quality increases because of it. I think naturally I’m good with numbers and computers, always been good at math class in school and whatnot. It was probably around high school, that 2015/2016 era when I started doing programming and making games. VERY close to when I started using Newgrounds. I like that aspect, where Newgrounds pretty much DID get me going with everything I do, and you can see my progress over the years in real time, people were able to watch me improve and become part of the community and whatnot.

Q: When making games you have recommended Stencyl in the past. Do you still recommend it to newcomers?

A: Probably not. Not anything against Stencyl, I think I’m just generally hesitant to recommend a single specific tool. I think it’s best if people try out as many different things as possible, until something feels like it sticks. Try Unity, Godot, Unreal Engine, Construct 3, Stencyl, HaxeFlixel, Phaser, etc. etc. The list goes on. Unlike animation where most people just roll with either something like Flash, or Toon Boom or somethin, Game development has a LOT of options, ESPECIALLY geared towards newcomers and people who have absolutely 0 experience with coding. So much that it can be overwhelming. If you are a newcomer to game development, get your hands on EVERYTHING you can. You will get frustrated with one, and give up. But then you can go onto the next one. You will eventually get frustrated and give up so many times, that you will eventually get frustrated at YOURSELF for giving up and being frustrated so often. And out of spite of your past self, you will continue on past that initial point of failure. At least that was my experience.

Q: When asked how to be a good programmer you offered this advice...

Learn how to be a good problem solver and don't give up early because you don't understand

Could you elaborate further? What hurdles have you had to come over?

A: I think very early on (and even far into having experience), it is VERY easy to give up on something when there’s absolutely no comprehension. It ALL feels very overwhelming. But part of that process to overcoming that is the excitement of LEARNING how and why you don’t comprehend things. When you’re just starting with something like coding, it’s tremendously difficult to even know how to LEARN. You see a line of code that you don’t understand. How do you figure it out? Well one aspect is to check the documentation. But then if you’ve never EVER read anything like programming documentation, how do you even find your way around THAT? In fact how do you even know that you should look at the documentation in the first place? There’s so many different aspects and considerations with stuff like that I feel. I think many people have this idea of what “talent” is. I feel most people are sorta under this understanding that no one is born with any particular magic brain powers that makes them more or less skilled in certain areas. I like the way that Satoru Iwata talks about it in his book. At first when you’re just starting something, you give it all of your energy. Labour, money, etc. Once you have a response to what you’ve done, and whatever feeling you experience, is your REWARD. When the reward feels like it’s greater than the energy you’ve expended, you don’t give up. If left to your own devices, naturally you will get better at things you feel you’re good at. When you know more about computers and programming, you will find the joy and reward of LEARNING more about computers much more fulfilling (same with art, music, ANYTHING). Then talent is just the ability to FIND rewards and fulfillment. If you are fulfilled when you make a new art piece, a new song, a new game. Even if it’s complete dogshit, you will continue to make those things. You won’t give up. THEN discipline comes in when you either fight past that small section where it feels like the reward isn’t worth the effort, or where you dig deep and MAKE that reward outweigh the effort INTERNALLY or whatev. This is all from Iwata’s book “Ask Iwata”, he is the one with the insightful words of wisdom!!!! Me explaining it was basically just nabbed from his book!! BUT NEVER GIVE UP EVER.

One of the VERY EARLY main hurdles was even just setting all the code stuff up. Code and programming can be complicated if you don’t know the procedure. What I gotta install from command line? How tf does the commandline work? I gotta use a package manager? What’s a package manager? Is that installed when I install the game development tools, or the programming tools? SO JUST KEEP BASHING YOUR HEAD AT THE WALL UNTIL SHIT WORKS LONG STORY SHORT

Q: What all can you tell us about 50 Shades of Pizza?

A: LMFAO these are sum deepcuts. As mentioned in this awesome ass thread, I thought it would be funny to share some of my dipshit high school assignments I worked on for English class. I think the topic of this one was to make a dialogue of some sort between two characters. The 50 Shades Of Gray movie was sorta the hot trendy thing around that time when I was going through high school, so I remember having an epiphany of just ripping the dialogue and replacing it with…. I guess these sentient pizza’s. Somethin about how it’s so absurd and silly and zany. I actually had to read this out to the entire class, and as far as I know they really loved it. Or they thought i was a psychopath. I do remember a lot of people laughing about it genuinely. I’m still just a shy socially anxious dipshit, I have no idea how I pulled that off. I NEVER talked in high school, I was basically mute, so I think it’s funny that the only things that people have heard from me is me having to read out this dumbass sexual tension between these two pizzas. It’s like the shit of the quiet kid is always the psychopath. That shit is true, I’m a maniac. Anyways one last little anecdote about that is I remember one of the cool girls recorded it and posted it to her snapchat (in a “good way”) and it found it’s way to my foster sister who is much more outgoing and popular than I was in high school. IDK somethin about that felt like two entirely different worlds colliding. Hard to describe.

Q: Your first game on Newgrounds is entitled The Disco Cat. You made it for Kitty Krew Day, drawing inspiration from Cat Dance by everydaylouie. How much about the Kitty Krew did you know about at the time? How did you come across Cat Dance and what about it inspired The Disco Cat?

A: I was dipshit Newgrounds user looool. I didn’t really know or understand kitty crew. I just thought it was a cute day dedicated to cats!!! Now I got respect for Kitty Krew lore and culture. But I look back at that game and it makes me laugh at how I just made something that didn’t really understand the point of Kitty Krew lol

I think that one Cat Dance game I remember coming across it and being like “hey, I could probably make something like this!”, I believe I just randomly stumbled across it on itch.io when I was neglecting work in high school. I think it’s very cute game hehehe and everydaylouie does cool stuff

Q: You listened to Nina Freeman's GDC 2015 Indie Soapbox Talk that lead to Breathing Simulator. What can you tell about Nina's talk and the development of Breathing Simulator?

A: Nina Freeman is one of my heroes. A lot of her work has had a genuine profound impact on me. That talk in particular still speaks to me I think. It talks a lot about making games that are genuine and honest, games that felt REAL. Her games were about HER. Cibele being a game about an online relationship she had. How Do You Do It being this jam game about playing with dolls and pretending they were having sex. Very REAL experiences. I think all creatives put an aspect of themselves in the work they do, but I think there was something about it being RIGHT THERE that is still powerful. If you look at some of my games, they have had a certain aspect of being very personal. Decryption, OSO, IN-FAMOUS, Lost Connection, Sick Day, ninjamuffin99 twitter simulator, and yes, even Blacks/Whites Only. Those games are about ME. Different games obviously have different levels of connection depending on what you look at in them. But I put myself into that shit. I don’t think it’s some profound thing, I think a lot of creatives do that. But I think with a LOT of people there’s a hesitance towards it. It’s VERY hard to be vulnerable. It’s VERY hard to make a game about yourself, and be honest like that. People’s judgements of the game aren’t only about the game, they are about YOU. However it’s NOT just about you. It’s also about the person playing it. It’s about the person who relates to it on this deep personal level. About whatever shared experience you’ve both had, as PEOPLE. That’s why heart break albums are so powerful with people. Many people experience heart break in some form or another. But the ones that REALLY touch people are the albums where the creator put every last inch of their fuckin SOUL into it. Where they were incredibly vulnerable with the feelings they felt. PUPPET AND IFHY AND AWKWARD BY TYLER THE CREATOR!!! THINKIN BOUT YOU AND SELF CONTROL BY FRANK OCEAN!!!! ESSENTIALS IN THE PLAYLIST EVERYONE!!!!

Anyways, Breathing Simulator itself is a little less PROFOUND or whatever than all that bullshit lol. In Nina Freeman’s talk, she mentions a comment she got from a person who was upset with one of her games. It went something like, “you don’t see ME making a game about the mundane act of breathing!” or whatever. And I thought it would be funny to make a game about that. A game literally about breathing. I made the simple “mechanic” of it, and asked around for an artist, which BrandyBuizel stepped up to the plate. Pure development was just very light on and off work for a week or two heheh. I miss makin dinky lil games like that, I wanna hop back on that bullshit.

Q: What can you tell us about the thought process behind Whites Only and Blacks Only?

A: I wanted to make something that had some VERY edgy name, but have some twist to it that invalidated the edginess to an extent. I did a bit of a writeup about it after it came out I think. I have it here.

That writeup is generally what was going through my mind at the time as I was making it

Q: Alright, let's talk about FRIDAY NIGHT FUNKIN'. It started as a Ludum Dare. The team came from PhantomArcade who said you two should work on something together. You had already worked with KawaiSprite on Ritz. However you have stated that you didn't know evilsk8r until you started to work on FRIDAY NIGHT FUNKIN'. How did you come to meet evilsk8r?

A: Yeah me and PhantomArcade have been meaning to do some stuff together for a looooong ass time. Since 2017 or so. We worked on and off with each other on different games that all fall through from us getting distracted with other work/projects. Pretty much every time though I think we find each other easy to work with. When I worked with kawaisprite on Ritz, I found him easy to work with too. He can so easily whip together a track that just immediately matches the exact tone, personality, and style of a project, before the full project is even fully realized. I'll jack him off here, I think kawaisprite isn't just a pure musical genius, I think he's a creative genius as well. He knows aesthetics, knows how to make a cohesive project. His albums Chuckie Finster, and FSOST stand toe to toe with some of my favorite albums ever. Before FNF already I felt so grateful to have him as a close friend who very much inspired me. And now that same fact applies to the rest of the FNF team. I'm incredibly grateful to not only work with PhantomArcade, but become closer as PALS. I work harder when I see his work ethic. I worked as hard as I did on the original game jam prototype because I didn't want to disappoint him. I wanted to put in just as much work as I saw him put into the game, even if it was just a small little game jam at the time. Shit like that is the magic of COLLABORATION i think.

Evilsk8r I got put in touch with from kiddbrute (rest in peace may god bless his soul). KB I messaged because I really loved his style of that early 2000s ass cool shit. I think the vibe of the game itself came from that. Looked at his style and thought of “what is a cool ass game that would suit this style”, and then I messaged him. I think he was either busy, or uninterested, but he tossed me evilsk8r’s way, and asked him if he was down for a cute little weekend game project. I really loved his stuff too and his touch has definitely increased the coolness factor of FNF. At the time he was pretty fresh young 17 year old. He got the YOUTHFULNESS. It's very inspiring to have him on as a young lil lad. It will be very interestin to watch evilsk8r grow as CREATIVE over next few years. One thing is I hope FNF doesn't restrain him too much. lov dat boy

Q: How did the idea of FRIDAY NIGHT FUNKIN' come to fruition? Was it a singular idea that grew from input or a group brainstorm that became a hurricane?

A: The classic tale goes that before the Ludum Dare game jam even started, I wanted to make an early 2000s ass parappa style rhythm game. Simple and straightforward lil project. Asked PhantomArcade, evilsk8r, and kawaisprite if they all wanted in and they were all down. When talking to PhantomArcade about the game, he more or less came up with a bunch of the MEAT of the game concept. Boy rap battling the rockstar dad to get the girlfriend. That’s pretty much the LORE of game jam, it all came VERY naturally. I think it’s good to just go with the flow for shit like that. Let other people have input just as much as you want input on a project yourself. I don’t think we debated for a second whether or not to do a rhythm game, it was just the choice from the start. What we were INSPIRED to do.

Q: The game has become an Internet phenomenon. To the point where the Week 7 Update crashed Newgrounds. That is unbelievable. You made a Kickstarter campaign to raise money for a full release game with the goal of $60,000. It has amassed over $2,000,000. You have spoken on the appreciation and gratefulness to Newgrounds, the fans of FRIDAY NIGHT FUNKIN', and the Supporters of Newgrounds. Throughout this time period you have also become somewhat of an ambassador to newcomers on the site. How have you and the team reacted to all of this?

A: I think we all very much love the NG community and are very proud to be this SENSATION or whatever that is so closely tied to NG. If I didn’t make FNF, I can absolutely say that FNF would be my favourite game ever, just for the fact that it’s this internet influential game that is bringing people to Newgrounds and showing the creative and collaborative spirit of Newgrounds. FNF is a game that’s made by 4 different people from the sorta different sides of Newgrounds. Musician, artist, animator, programmer, all working together to make this cool ass project. It still just scratches the surface of NG tho, there's a crazy amount of talented voice actors, writers, stuff like that on Newgrounds. But at the end of the day I think FNF still has that pure collaborative spirit to it.

Me and PhantomArcade especially love Newgrounds, and we’ve been trying to push it forward long before FNF. We are just two of many. I think it’s good to let people know that Newgrounds isn’t some chump shit. More projects like FNF can happen. It’s just a matter of time. If you asked if a game from Newgrounds would come out and break the fuckin internet a month before FNF existed (September 2020), no one would believe you at all. No one would believe you if you said that there could EVER be a game that broke through and reached to be the most viewed submission of all time on the site. People make games, and if it’s successful, they just simply make a Steam or console version of it right? No one sticks around to keep Newgrounds culture thriving right? Nah, shit happens if you make it happen. If you truly care about Newgrounds, Newgrounds will care about you back. There will be a game that surpasses FNF. It’ll be like mf Avatar shit. Maybe it’ll come in 10 years, maybe it’ll come in 5 weeks. But when it does, it will 100% feel right. Going forward games like that will be a part of the newgrounds culture and history. It will be by people who care about Newgrounds just as much as we do, if not more. Web game culture isn’t what it was in the 2000s. If you are currently posting your stuff onto Newgrounds, it’s because you give a shit about Newgrounds, so ur already halfway there. If you want to be the thing that dethrones FNF, giving a shit about Newgrounds is the first step. We wouldn’t be where we are if we didn’t care about Newgrounds as much as we do.

Q: When it comes to game development you have branched out in a multitude of genres. When you decide to make a game, where does it begin and when do you know the game is completed?

A: I’ll answer the second part of the question first. For a long time I been very much adhering to DEADLINES. That’s why I roll with gamejams a lot. In Tina Fey’s book, she mentions working with Lorne Micheals on SNL. “SNL doesn’t go live because it’s ready, it goes live because it’s 11:30”. SNL has a lot of shit, but also, it has gold. That’s pretty much any creative medium or whatev. You need to be VERY picky about the projects you really put your time and passion into. Even with FNF, there have been MANY times we’ve released when WE thought things weren’t ready yet. Original gamejam version, the Newgrounds version, Pico Update, Mommy update, week 5, 6, 7…. Now that I think about it…. Pretty much none of the FNF updates have come out when they felt “ready”. But however it did feel RIGHT to post them when we did. A gut instinct between us that has come from both developing the game itself over time, as well as just creating things in general over the years. Knowing what’s “good enough” for an update, and knowing the workflow, and what comes from a “release”. Pros and cons and shit. Even though it’s no longer a gamejam version, we do have these self imposed deadlines of sorts. I think that keeps a lot of things on track.

Onto the first part of the Q, usually things begin on a WHIM for me. Make things when I feel like it. Wake up in the right mood, and I can just work all day on something completely new. I also like to do different new things. For each new genre, there’s different design considerations, different programming things to know. I think it expands my brain to work on different genres.

Q: What is in your opinion, the definition of video games?

A: I won’t say some profound thing or nothin, I think video game is jus lil digital thing put together that you can interact with in some way. Doesn’t even need to be a GAME per se. Just literally anything that can be put together digitally that you toy around with in some form or another. Although I do like the way Phil Fish put it in Indie Game The Movie, “video games are pretty much every creative medium, all wrapped into one, and thats why it’s awesome”. Not his exact quote, but I think thats somethin special about video games.

Q: One way you described yourself in the past was...

I'm bored and I make silly stuff like 3 star animations and games.

Do you still see yourself in this light?

A: I’m a lot less bored nowadays, and I think I’ve gotten better at making things where at least I will make stuff that is 3.5 stars I think. Yeah somethin like that. I still make silly stuff.

Q: What can we expect from ninjamuffin99 in the future?

A: I am going to prison. Keep this screenshot and post it to one of those “poorly aged tweets” twitter accounts or whatever in 5 years or so, whenever the "conspiracy" allegations come out.

ninjamuffin99 has been a long time reader and fan of The Interviewer. To see how he grew in success has made me proud to see the new faces he has brought to Newgrounds. New eyes on the site. As well as new creators. He has brought a resurgence to the site that has happened since the Tumblr exodus. All from a Ludum Dare game. Who knows what will come from him next. It is sure to be wonderful. That I am certain.

The Tank Tribune is a part of Dohn's Desk Productions

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