sirkaotik 2020-10-07 02:47:42

nice

larrynachos 2020-10-07 04:46:45

holy cannoli, this was quite the read! So much background behind the legend that is Jabun! Fantastic interview :D

Jabun 2020-10-07 06:33:43

@larrynachos Thanks so much for the kind words :)

Cyberdevil 2020-10-07 09:31:17

Was not expecting this at all today! :D What a treat!

Hearing that Newgrounds was THE place to upload music to back in the day, hmm! I thought we were always a bit off the radar when it came to music in particular, but maybe I've just not been involved with the particular groups that tend to involve themselves with that kind of stuff. Explains how audio content has kept growing all this time, even through from an insider perspective - from a place within the wide community of NG itself - the audio section has always felt a bit distanced from the other sections, which often intertwine in the guise of collaboration, and feedback between both audience and artist. With audio it feels like more like everything's there mainly for the audio. It's a slightly bridged but still not entirely site-wide grouping.

Maybe there's a historical divide in how the audio portal was first created mainly as a resource for animation, and that stigma's stayed on with both how it's presented and how us veterans perceive the place... but it also really has evolved into it's own world a bit, and the two fractions of the grounds never truly came together between these two so very near but distant communities... or maybe it's that audio's a difficult format to fully appreciate the technicalities of, and so the more visual formats still garner a different, larger, yet sometimes less involved audience...

Turned into unexpectedly contemplative historical NG rant unrelated to said interview! Sorry 'bout that! Random more relevant impressions follow...

That piano story's amazing too. What a great mom... and ouch regarding the drilling into your dad's hand bit. XD

Interesting how similar the BOTB and BTTB acronym turned out...

And regarding juggling so many skills: if you just pour enough time into a multitude of them then maybe you really can master all after all. :) Seems like you are, and it seems like there do exist artists who are just so incredibly talented/well-trained with not just all aspects of their performance but production too. Prince comes to mind, Dr. Dre maybe, Andrew Huang. What they seem to have in common, apart from having been born with already enviable built-in musicality, is that they all seem to be/have been both insanely prolific AND passionate about what they do. Time pays off when used wisely!

Of course there's an endless set of hobbies you could be picking up and never becoming more than sub-par at, but when all of these aforementioned skills are under the particular branch of music... maybe not impossible. :) Everything's somewhat intertwined as well.

It's awesome you still stay humble @jabun, and spread so much appreciation in the depiction of that journey above too!

Inspiring deep-dive; great interview so far! Onto part two...

Jabun 2020-10-07 10:23:45

@Cyberdevil Hehe! Happy you’re enjoying it so far!

Perhaps NG was just the place to be for my own local community (in terms of music uploads). I can really only think of NG and MySpace at the time to upload things and it was a big deal with my friends and school peers to have music up on there. I understand your sentiments though; I do feel like the audio portal is more an add-on to the main animations and games side of NG. I agree with your thoughts on audio being more difficult to fully appreciate too (from a technical point of view). Hehe! No worries about contemplations! Interesting to hear your perspectives on such things :D

It really is, and is still fairly fresh to me (I only found out maybe last year)? The drilling into my dad’s hand story was silliness on his part to be honest! We were drilling a hole to link 2 of the electronics cavities which was at a difficult angle and we couldn’t afford to go too far in case we made a hole into the NEXT section. I had the drill and asked him “how will I know when to stop”, and I clearly remember him saying “I’ll let you know when to stop”, and he sure did let me know XD I’ve no idea why he did it that way and didn’t even mention he had his hand on the other side until the drill was in it, there must’ve been an easier way XD (He’s fine though)!
Oh yeah! I hadn’t noticed the BOTB / BTTB similarity!
As you say I still think it’s a compromise of sorts, but time sure does pay off when used effectively. Mastering “it all” depends on what your “all” is. If it’s just music production then it’s possible, but maybe not having an absolute knowledge of all music genres and instruments under the sun. I still think in the grand scheme of things, even the great multi-hatters are fairly specialised within their field. I think the important word is “their” performance and production. They cover all the bases they need to cover in their own creative subset, which gives the illusion doing it all. It’s about playing and supporting their strengths. There is only so much time to do things though and it takes time to build up those strengths (and maintain them), so it’s about using that time the best you can. Passion with what you do is definitely a must though!

Too true too! It’ll be quite the accomplishment to be winning Grammys, Olympic Golds, Oscars and Nobel prizes all at the same time, but yes gaining all the skills needed for a specific subset of music I’m sure is comparably doable XD

Cheers CD! Gotta give thanks when it’s due and I’ve certainly been very lucky to have the support people have given me over the years, including yours! :)

Enjoy Part 2 and beyond and thanks for checking it out :D

Cyberdevil 2020-10-07 17:54:48

@Jabun

Wish we had had some local groups communities like that over here too. :) Maybe we do now. I was always an anomaly when it came to this place. Tried bringing in buddies in school but they'd rather be with the giants, just maybe not the same creative drive I suppose... those who dabbled with film were of course more suited for YT too...

As for other alternatives at the time there were a BUNCH of them, but none this big, granted. :) I signed up to a bundle of similar sites at the time, and submitted my early beats in parallel, but they all lived unfortunately short lives. Places like Zellomesh and eh... well maybe that was the only one that actually also supported audio...

Otherwise there was Smosh, Retrogade, Musty Windows, Lava Grounds, Flipsided, Flash Graphique, Flash Portal, Albino Blacksheep and other niche communities, countless stick-based communities, probably plenty I never explored. Indeed most probably focused on art or animation though. Radiogrounds was pretty cool too but that's a different thing...

MySpace was definitely huge. To think this place once rivaled it in that! :) Both run by Toms too. These places have strangely much in common, but took so different roads. MySpace blew up, but didn't really keep with the times and now they're but a shadow of their former self. Meanwhile NG's continually adapted and struggled on with an inspiring resilience; though we never really reached the same level of acclaim maybe our times coming too. We didn't grow up too fast. Stayed humble and adaptable. We're ready. :P

Must've been a pretty special moment for something like that to get brought up. :) And lmao again about the drilling bit, that would've been a great bit in the interview too! XD Guess maybe he thought the transition between wood and hand wouldn't be all that sudden...

Thought of asking if the BTTB similarity was intentional, but seemed like it probably wouldn't be. :) Pretty cool though. Easier to notice with both in the same context like this!

Right, mastering 'music' might be a bit too wide a scope after all, but whatever particular styles or teachings it is you focus on. :) Mastering the ability to hit the right notes, or hear the right notes, stuff like that feels somewhat like foundations of it all though... but maybe the more you learn the more humbled you become; there's really so much to it that I'm not even aware of. With instruments, in a way if you learn to play one stringed instrument you basically learn them all no? The similarities that carry across. I imagine a lot of knowledge is so much wider than the scope it might initially be applied to that way, whatever field your in. Like if you only learn the right things, then each of those things expands to fill an even vaster area of knowledge you didn't expect to pick up at the same time. Like it's really an RPG/arcade hybrid, and these stats you collect have multipliers that just keep increasing the more you gain. ;) My old motto did use to be that life is all a game!

Anyway we definitely do agree here. Choices make a difference but it's still all a compromise, and whatever you learn shapes and makes you who you are. You're an embodiment of what you've learned, and that comes across in anything you choose to do. Style = sum of learning and preference as to what's most important to learn. To some extent...

Ditto. :) Even when you have the potential to collab with so much greater artists in the lines and lots I really do appreciate you taking the time to add some shine to these occasional rhymes we swap! Been a blast to follow the journey too!

Alright, finally time to read the rest of this interview...

Jabun 2020-10-08 06:13:24

@Cyberdevil Maybe it’s just a case of finding them I guess (The communities I mean) :) +1 to the film sentiments, though I don’t think YT was that big if around at all when I first started here... I hadn’t heard of Zellomesh at all. I honestly can’t remember any other places where people could share music in such a way at the time XD (2005-7). I do remember Albino Blacksheep for animations! That was another favourite among my peers for Flash based things

Just for the music upload element I think. Hehe, you’re right about the Tom connection too XD Too true with regards the sentiments. NG is what it is in the best possibly way, while MySpace has really been replaced multiple times eventually leading to Facebook in the mainstream. I don’t think there’s ever been something quite like Newgrounds. It’s its own special place (which is another reason why I love it!)

I think we were going through past memories and stuff and the story came up. Funny you should say that about “the transition between wood and hand”. That’s pretty much exactly what my dad said at the time! XD

Nah, just a coincidence :)

Yup, that’s my take on it anyway! I think there’s definitely a learning curve when it comes to learning. There’s that saying: The novice seems to know it all, while the master knows how little s/he knows (something like that)? Reminds me of an Eminem lyric “are you bozos smart enough to feel stupid”! I think there’s definitely a common set of fundamentals when it comes to music (genres, production, writing), though beyond that, things start to widely diversify. Same can be said for stringed instruments btw. Take guitar vs cello for example; both instruments use the same physical method to create a sound: The vibration of a string, and so both require finger strength, a sense of coordination between the hands and a geographical sense of the fingerboard to control the pitch. On one hand though, the guitar can be focused on chordal work while the cello often focuses on single note playing. One has frets (guitar), the other has none, and so requires a greater attention to pitch and intonation. As such the methods of vibrato are different, as of course plectrum and bow technique as well as even the way each instrument is plucked with the fingers (due to the different holding positions) is quite different too.

Even taking more similar instruments such as the guitar and bass guitar, while at first glance they appear very similar, the playing technique is often very different due to the roles they each fill in the ensemble. Chords and lead parts vs a bassline. You can often tell when someone is playing a bass like a regular guitar and vice versa (and where it might be (in)appropriate in specific settings). Of course the fundamentals of controlling the instrument are similar, but the ways in which they’re used lead towards different techniques from a physical point of view as well as musical composition point of view.

Of course with mixing and mastering, there are tonnes of fundamentals which carry across genres smoothly. A lot of it is as technical in nature as it is artistic and the technical fundamentals are based in sound/audio physics, which don’t tend to change XD Of course expanding into different genres and styles means having to learn some extra tricks (like how to mix amped electric guitars vs synths for instance), and these all help to reinforce those fundamentals too. It’s a feedback loop of sorts. Definitely loving the game analogies :D

Hehe, I could talk about this all day! +1 to the sentiments :)

No worries! I love being a part of it too! Always great to make some music, and thanks again!
Enjoy :D

Cyberdevil 2020-10-08 09:15:30

@Jabun

For sure, there must've been some here too, but since the audience is mainly English I assume it's always been way bigger in the US/UK than surrounding countries. We've always had more local community sites like Hamsterpaj and Lunarstorm, pretty big competition to places like this or even Facebook back in the day. Not so much now though. Btw, with the circles you were in, are there any other artists you know personally that have been submitting music here all the while you have? Or signed up around the same time and at least did back then?

True, YT took a while to get where it is now, in fact it didn't even exist when I signed up here. Wonder what kind of film-based place all my buddies gravitated to instead hmm... Zellomesh was around till at least the 2010's btw, but never grew that big. Twas one of the last real 'clones' of this place still in circulation. :) Flashportal.com is still up but is mainly a splash page now, used to be a full-fledged portal where you could upload anything too. Nice, probably did both stumble upon plenty of sites like that back in the day too! SomethingAwful, Ebaumsworld, Homestarrunner, TheWeebl...

Share those sentiments! Feels like with time maybe NG is really starting to get the recognition it deserves too. As one of the pioneers, as one who's started, inspired and boosted so many creative careers, now as one of the few true preservers of the entire Flash dynasty...

lmao! XD This just gets better and better... nice about the memory moment too...

Got it.

So true, if you really learn then you keep getting humbled by experience. :) But there seem to be those who still feel like they know it all no matter what stage they're at, strange how that works... maybe they just never fully leave the novice level; grow to fathom what levels lie beyond it... somewhat surprised Eminem's said something that wise. XD Though he certainly applies a different kind of image to himself than his lyrics reveal... sometimes forget how inspiring work he's done along the way. Mmm, interesting comparison between instruments, gaps and bridges indeed... seems a bit similar to say tennis and table tennis. Similar co-ordination; different physics entirely; as such entirely different muscle feedback required to do the same thing with either.

:)

That's that required passion shining through!

And again! And maybe now finally off to that second part...

Jabun 2020-10-09 06:02:40

@Cyberdevil Ah that’s true about the potential language barrier. Makes sense. I’m sure there were a few local artists too making mainly electronic music but most of the local people I knew were more consumers than creators on NG. I can’t recall any specific names from back then unfortunately... no one I know personally who’s still doing it certainly (even in the last decade).

Yup! Oh I do recall Ebaumsworld and of course Weeblsstuff! Spend a fair amount of time on the latter :D Hopefully as you say NG starts building up a bigger rep too, and I’m sure the ball is already rolling for that! You hear the name quoted a lot from creators who’ve made it big in the online community in recent years!

*Various nods*

I guess it’s not easy to know what you don’t know, so there’s often that illusion of knowing it all, while maturity says that there must always be something more? Hehe, I think that line was from the MMLP2! Definitely a wordsmith that guy! OOO! That’s exactly the type of comparison I was going for with stringed instruments vs racket sports! Perfect analogy (as far as my knowledge of racket sports goes) :D

Hehe! Can’t stop it it seems XD

Until the next one!

Cyberdevil 2020-10-09 09:13:33

@Jabun Mmm that's unfortunate. Gotta go on a quest to find NG artists in close local vicinity some time...

Hope you also remember Ebaumsworld with the infamy it brought with it. ;) Indeed, though the ball was rolling uphill for a while but... seems to be going the right way now. :) Yupp, all that initial work seems to be paying off now that the generations who grew up here make a name for themselves too; spread the word! Exciting to picture the recognition for this place just exponentially expanding overtime as more and more people do. Those old stigmas (adult content for one) that had people not talking about this place before don't seem to be in the way any longer either. All the more of an audience who cares about the artistic freedom and integrity this place caters to, freedom of expression and form no matter what!!!

Mmm maybe that's it... the quality of perception not always developed as much as the advancement of knowledge? All these things are things to master too after all. Ironic that you just can't be boastful about mastering humility, more so less so the more you do. :) From Berserk on it, yes, had to Google since I didn't instantly place it! And nice! :D You don't play a lot of racket sports though? Those are my favorites! Dad always wanted to be a professional tennis player so there may be some traces of interest there...

With sufficient guitar mastery I imagine you might do well with required racket sport co-ordination too. ;)

Until that simple next step that never seems to be taken!!!

Jabun 2020-10-10 03:06:16

@Cyberdevil Indeed!

I don’t remember much about it no (Ebaumsworld infamy)... I definitely remember the stigma on NG with regards lack of censorship and adult content but I really think that’s become one of its strengths compared to the now broken censorship rules on YouTube for instance. “Animal cruelty; fine by YT, but make a Spongebob parody animation and that’s going TOO far!” I think NG has at least got its priorities straight with regards that sort of thing! Artistic freedom (within reason) and the safety of its community, rather than what’ll feed the money making algorithms and appeases the advertisers!

You know, an artist pal I know once told me of a similar phenomena where when drawing/painting etc... you go through stages of improving your actual drawing vs your analysis of drawing and I think the same could be applied to most creative and learning things (listening vs making sound). There’s times where you feel like you’re getting better while your analysis hasn’t caught up, and there’s times when you feel like you’re getting worse, but really you’re saying the same, but your analysis is learning faster so you perceive your work as less good. It’s a good phenomenon to know about and help you stay motivated even when you don’t feel like you’re progressing (when really you’re just progressing in a different way) :) Too true about humility! Funny little paradox there XD Ah yes, that’s the track! I go through phases of playing racket sports depending on if I have someone to play with / against. Very much enjoy badminton and table tennis (the ones which require less arm strength)! Nice to hear about your own family sporting history :D I’d say it’s a toss-up between those and bat & field games (like rounders or something) for me. Always enjoyed those at school!

Hehe maybe XD I think my strength is more in my fingers than my arms though!

No rush XD

Cyberdevil 2020-10-15 16:34:01

@Jabun

The Ebaumsworld infamy had to do with them stealing content from other places, among those other places NG. :) We had a bit of a feud at the time, but things have calmed down since, as I suppose copyright also started to be enforced across sites and they had to deal with those consequences too... though maybe they just started focusing on different forms of content... always was a fan of their layout though! Layouts are one of those things i remember so fondly about the early net, when accessibility standards weren't a thing each individual community was a work of art just in appearance! Anyay, getting side-tracked... totally agree. :) Though for a while it seemed like NG was ashamed of that artistic freedom in regard to certain art types it really seems like we've embraced it now; are all the stronger for it. The giants, however, I'm surprised they don't notice what consequences their strange regulations are having on the userbase, but I guess they're just so big at this point that it's hard to hear things the same...

Hmmm, that makes sense, though sounds so strange you'd be able to perceive things as worse than they really are, or vice versa... though of course, you're not then, just advancing with different speed in each individual field... good to know about for sure. And confusing to really cater to. XD How do you know now if your work really is bad or if your judgement is just that much better...

Then there's that thing about how as an artist it seems you always second guess everything regardless

Could maybe play some table tennis with wrist weights to prepare for the other ones. :P Mmm I probably would too if I really got into them, but so far the main racket's rackets! Hehe, good sport for musicality then. :)

Aaand I think I finally have the time to rush off to that second one now...

Jabun 2020-10-16 06:34:58

@Cyberdevil Ah I see... makes sense with the infamy and feuds then! Agreed that layouts have become more homogenised throughout the years too. Ergonomic maybe, but individual, not so much anymore... bit of a shame. +1 to the various art sentiments.

It is strange indeed! With regards how to judge whether you really are bad/good/getting better, that’s why having someone whose ability above you to keep you in check is really important. A mentor, a teacher, or just a peer who’s growing alongside you. Good to have honest and reliable extra perspectives to make sure you don’t fall into bad habits, or at least challenge your growth! It’s one reason why sharing your work with the world and taking in feedback is the best way to grow.

Hehe, yeah, there’s that too XD

I wonder if that’d work but sounds interesting :D *Various nods*

I see you have! See you over there :D

Cyberdevil 2020-10-16 07:33:36

@Jabun For sure, though with some of the new trends I'm not sure about usability either, they oversimplify sometimes, sites optimize more for mobile and often end up having way too big images, and spacing, and text, and just becoming difficult to get an overview on with any other device... +1!

True true. And to have that you'd need to know you still have more to learn... on earlier points of perception not keeping up with confidence... for sure!

As long as you don't get any wrist injuries due to unnatural strain it most definitely would work! :P Wrist weights are great.

See you there!

Jabun 2020-10-19 06:03:06

@Cyberdevil Ah yeah, I know that feeling... Difficult to get a truly good compromise sometimes between mobile and desktop versions of a website. Often frustrating...

*Nods*

That’d be my main concern for sure. Intrigued though!

See ya :D